The irony of literally anyone (eligible) not voting for Biden specifically because of his handling of the Gaza situation, and thereby doing their part to help Donald “Gotta Finish the Problem” Trump win, makes my bones hurt. I hate this timeline and I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
Yes and these people become excessively angry with you when you point it out. Their goal isn’t really to find a solution, it is to express discontent. They are divorced enough from reality that when you mention that Trump would be worse, they tend to lash out at you instead.
If 2024 was the last election ever, then your logic makes complete sense, and I get to liberals every election is the last election ever, despite us seeing Trump’s desperate and flawed attempts at seizing power. He didn’t get more intelligent in the last 4 years or learn from his mistakes.
Imagine a crazy, crazy world, where Trump wins in 2024 and there’s a 2028 election. I know this is hard for some moderate libs to fathom, but you should recognize it as a real possibility.
If it’s incredibly clear that Biden lost because he’s Genocide Joe, then the next Democratic candidate might be someone younger who is ready to end the genocide (which the U.S is perfectly capable of single-handedly doing).
I’ve met people online that absolutely refuse to even acknowledge this is a possible world. They think Genocide Joe is the absolute best, pro-Gaza leader the Democratic party could ever put forth, and that losing elections due to issues like supporting genocide could never change the rhetoric and actions of future candidates in the party.
It’s fucking mind-numbing how little thought people put into this. Like I’m happy to agree that in a world where Trump wins, the years 2024-2028 are going to be worse in about every conceivable way, but then as we get into 2028 and beyond, there are scenarios that play out better for leftists in that world (e.g we get an anti-genocide, socialist leftist instead of some moderate Republican who is a reincarnation of Biden except on some social issues). The fact that moderate libs REFUSE to acknowledge this possibility is fucking exhausting.
And I’m not saying that it’s guaranteed to be better 2028 and beyond, it’s absolutely not, nobody can make guarantees about the future, but there is undeniable potential value in having Biden lose this election when you look beyond the next 4 years.
In your scenario there would be no Gaza to save in 2028.
False premise.
The irony of literally anyone (eligible) not voting for Biden specifically because of his handling of the Gaza situation
I left my primary ballot blank. There was nobody on the ticket who wasn’t going to continue the genocide (with perhaps Marianna Williamson as an exception, but I’m not indulging her vanity campaign). Come November, I suspect I’ll be in the same spot. Two candidates who are endorsing genocide, with the caveat that one is waving an Israeli sports pennant while the other repeatedly insists he feels really bad about it.
I hate this timeline and I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
Swing by Gaza. We’ll sell the Israelis the next round of ammo used to wipe you off the face of the Earth.
It’s a good thing that the only responsibility of a US president is deciding what to do about Israel.
If they were the only person able to veto something like a national abortion ban, or legislation criminalizing trans people, it would really mess with your calculus.
It’s a good thing that the only responsibility of a US president is deciding what to do about Israel.
Hey now, that’s not true. He’s also responsible for getting his Too Woke judicial nominees filibustered, appointing a bunch of corporate flacks to the Federal Reserve, doing photo ops at the US-Mexico border while wearing tacti-cool kit and frowning through a pair of binoculars, and fucking up the handling of the next environmental / weather disaster. And who can forget the most important job of any President? Fundraising!
If they were the only person able to veto something like a national abortion ban
Then we’re already fucked, because that would imply all this hemming and hawing about abortion being a losing issue for Republicans failed to pan out and now a bunch of sadistic right-wing fucks are crowding into the House and Senate.
“I don’t want to live on this planet anymore…” oh please, just stop. How horrible is your life? You sound like a whiny liberal. People are dying all over the world, being murdered for religious beliefs, sexual preference, politics…etc…and you don’t want to live because “that big bad republican might become President…” Please…
Color me surprised that the facist sympathizes with other fascists committing a genocide.
This is what I’ve been pointing out all along… Say what you want about Biden funding Israel, Trump is actively worse.
And no, Jill Stein or Cornell West are not viable alternatives.
Ohh, just how will our little “But Biden saporz Genocide”-crybabies now explain away their “both side is bad” bullshit?
Mocking a genocide of 35,000 humans for internet points… 🤦♂️
Using the G word for the situation = instant disqualification from any serious discussion.
Sorry. This ethnic cleansing is clearly genocidal by now. They want the Palestinians in Gaza gone, and neighboring countries are not capable or willing to take them. That leaves death as the most likely fate for almost all Gazans. A million kids live there for fuck’s sake. It’s evil Nazi shit being done by the very fuckers who claim criticism of Israel is antisemitism.
They are Judeo-fascists, because no fucking group will ever be immune to fascism: Socialists, feminists, African Americans, trans people, every conceivable group of people for the rest of human history. There is no identity that cannot lead to fascism.
But sure, yeah… go ahead and just not vote. Letting Trump in will be so much better for the Palestinians.
A week ago, the difference between the two would have been that Trump would enable Israel in every way, while Biden would enable Israel in every way, but staffers would leak stories about how much Biden didn’t like Netanyahu from time to time. Now, Biden has started sending aid to Gaza while Harris is calling for a ceasefire, and this is entirely because 100K voters in Michigan voted uncommitted. When done properly, threatening to withhold your vote can be an effective way to make your voice heard.
Now, Biden has started sending aid to Gaza
But he hasn’t stopped sending weapons to Israel
Yeah, I’m not saying there’s been enough change, just that there has been some change, and it was brought on by people threatening to withhold their vote.
it was brought on by people threatening to withhold their vote.
Its definitely been a wake-up call to the party. Watching Biden shed 20% of Democratic voter turnout in a fucking primary is something. Obama and Clinton never had these kinds of problems in '12 and '96. And guys that did - Carter getting burned by Ted Kennedy in '80 and Bush to Buchanan in '92 - should have been a warning to the party as a whole.
Yeah, I’ll be honest, I’m very worried about this election. I’m still unhappy with Biden’s approach to Israel, but at least now they can credibly argue that voting for him would be harm reduction for Palestinians. Maybe that will be enough to drive turnout.
at least now they can credibly argue that voting for him would be harm reduction
Right until the polls close in November, at which point its back to business as usual.
Letting Trump in
Winner-take-all electoral college means you never really had a voice in the matter.
You should have moved to a Blue State before 2020, so your physical presence could be used to tip how many electoral votes that state produced, if you really cared about stopping Trump in 2024. That’s the only consequential method of putting a (very tiny) finger on the scale of a Presidential contest.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to move to a swing state and try to tip it blue?
Edit: tip it blue
From a population perspective, it wouldn’t matter. Your best bet would be to find a bright blue state that is on the cusp of getting a new house seat. That would boost up the EC total for the state and guarantee consistent adds to Team Blue. Moving to a purple state and hoping you are THE swing voter mostly just means you make the state more valuable to invest in by the various campaigns. You’re still going to be functionally feeding Red Team during red election waves (which blue needs votes the most) when your view is most likely to be in the minority.
Holy shit, what a moron. Biden should really send a thank you card for that nice little gift.
The general election will be a competition between two senile goons shouting “I love Israel more than you!” at one another from across a debate stage.
Then we’ll all get an earful about how voting is a civic duty and you need to choose which one is the lesser of the two evils.
Biden: We’ve been reluctantly supporting a very close ally, but it’s gone too far, and now we’re publicly condemning while admittedly still funding them. It’s a complicated situation, and I’m a cautious centrist.
Trump: Why are there still buildings standing in Gaza? That won’t happen on my watch. May as well wipe out the West Bank while we’re at it.
For the life of me, I can’t tell the difference. I have no idea who to vote for to help the Palestinians.
There is no one to vote for to help the Palestinians.
The only hope for Gaza is for Biden to change course and use his significant leverage to convince Bibi to end the blockade.
If the status quo of famine is allowed to continue, there will be no Gazans left to bomb when Trump is sworn in on Jan 2025.
Is that what Biden has said or is that what you want him to say?
Nope that’s what he has said and has been saying. Are you trolling or just ignorant?
What about his actions? How many bombs used in this genocide were sent by the US?
We live in a democracy. Maybe you’re thinking of the Arab states surrounding Israel, where one guy decides everything?
We don’t send bombs to Israel because they need them to kill Hamas. Israel makes all the weapons they need to do that without America. It is a nuclear power. America sends weapons to Israel because of the threat of Iran. And it’s not going to stop doing that because of a local land dispute. Our alliance with Israel is about avoiding a war with Iran, which would result in tens of millions of deaths.
10,000,000 > 30,000. Simple as that.
Gross lol.
Yeah but deciding not to vote for Biden just feels like a good trendy way to express my sympathies with Palestineans… /s
I hope this gets posted in all the leftist boards. People need to understand Biden is a continuation of the United States’ wishy-washy policies on Palestinians whereas Trump is pedal to the floor full acceleration towards genocide. Biden has shown he can at least be pressured into taking minor steps in the right direction. Being able to claim moral purity at the expense of a genocided Palestine will ring pretty hollow.
I have a strict “no genocide” policy. Candidates that promote, endorse, allow, or sit idly by and let others do genocide are gonna be a no go from me.
It’s not going to change unless we make demands.
I have a strict “no genocide” policy.
That’s not one of the options though. You get to pick which genocide. You either get restrained genocide, or full genocide with a side of dismantling American democracy.
Tell your kids how you rationalized voting for genocide.
You mean critical thinking?
As soon as it’s assured Trump loses, and the subsequent cou de tat is quelled, you can all camp the White House front lawn and shake the fences, throw red paint, call old Biden an accessory to murder. Fill your boots.But not before.
Balancing on the tightrope with hell yawning below, is hardly the time to consider changing your shoelaces.
As soon as it’s assured Trump loses, and the subsequent cou de tat is quelled, you can all camp the White House front lawn and shake the fences, throw red paint, call old Biden an accessory to murder. Fill your boots.
None of that will cause any structural change, which is why it is permitted
How can we reshape the United States such that genocide is never permitted again?
So just keep quiet for the next 6 months as Gaza starves?
That sounds bad. But you have to remember that they’re brown and Muslim. Which means it’s OK.
Fish don’t have any feelings, which makes it ok to eat them. Same logic applies here.
Remember to vote blue no matter who. And always remember that the United States is a good country filled with moral people
Happily, and I’ll teach them how to do the same, when necessary. Unlike your parents apparently.
Sometimes there’s no good choice, only bad and worse. That’s how life works and I’m sad your parents never prepared you for that.
Sometimes there’s no good choice
Why?
And what conclusions can be drawn about who does and does not hold power in the United States?
And what should be done to the United States to correct this?
United States’ wishy-washy policies on Palestinians
Wishy-washy policies is my favorite way to say “apartheid ethnostate”
And people think Democrats will
vote onsupport Trump because Biden won’t denounce Israel…It’s at least in part Russian propaganda. They don’t want people to vote for Trump, they do want democratic voters to not vote at all, which will help Trump get elected.
Look at the people pushing the ‘genocide Joe’ thing. Invariably they’re anti-NATO and make excuses for Iran, Syria and Russia. Not that they’re doing it deliberately, but plenty seem to have bought the propaganda and are acting like useful idiots by spreading it.
Genocide Joe needs to be held accountable for sending weapons to a country engaged in genocide. That’s not propaganda, that’s international law.
And just for the sake of science: do you have an opinion on NATO?
It’s fine I guess, I’m not a Russian or Chinese shill lmao. I guess I was technically a social democrat, then I thought humanity would be okay in small tribal communes, but now I think humanity should go extinct in order to save the remaining animals we haven’t already driven to extinction. For sciences sake.
So you do realize that’s worse than Hitler right? Your “noble cause” requires humanity to be exterminated, Hitler just wanted a “perfect race” of humans. Even if it’s not by your hand or directed by you, you want the elimination of the entire human species.
There are some days where I’m in that camp too lol
Yeah I don’t think it should be an extermination, I know there are others like me called the voluntary extinction movement or something. I think intelligent people can see the writing on the wall that we’ve passed an important climate tipping point in 2023, I’m lucky I didn’t already have kids, but I’m getting a vasectomy.
Humanity has driven 70% of all species to extinction in the 250,000 years we’ve been around. 150 species a day. How many megafauna did we permanently erase before we even developed the written word? I think if we burn ourselves out before we spread to other planets or solar systems, said places are lucky.
That’s the easy way out. Please stick around and help the rest of us try to steer humanity in the right direction. Help the moral arc of the universe bend a little faster. It’s hard work, and most of us won’t see much of a return. But long-term, let’s hope that humanity can.
To clarify: I’m a biologist. The perspective you’ve taken is basically “Noble Savage” but for animals. Animals are pushed to extinction all the time. Yes, we’re incredibly good at it, and we’re good at coming up with highfalutin reasons for killing things, but look at chimps, ants, dolphins…nature is brutal. It sucks to be most animals. Say a habitat changes, and a species “needs” to move into an adjacent similar habitat that’s already occupied by one or more species exploiting those resources? Extinction of something is pretty likely. That’s all very much an oversimplification, of course, but this is a lemmy comment.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0111310 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/when-it-comes-waging-war-ants-humans-have-lot-common-180972169/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
The hope I have is our intelligence. The fact that you recognize this existential threat is more than a badger is capable of.
Do you have an opinion on anything I said or just insinuations about my agenda?
Still uncommitted?
Remember Trump isn’t on the democratic ballot. You can’t vote against him until November. Your only choice in the primaries is to vote for Biden or vote that you are here for the other progressive and democratic choices down ballot but Biden has to earn that commitment by doing something against his own personal desire to be a Zionist and instead help starving children get food.
Uncommitted doesn’t mean I’m never going to vote for Biden. It just means he has to earn it through action.
Sure, but how many people are casting uncommitted or seeing how unpopular Biden is and are going to stay home in November because of it? My guess is not zero.
I get the protest and the timing, but it’s unclear if it’s really inoffensive in the general.
Then it sounds like Biden needs to take a firm anti-genocide stance to get those voters to actually vote, no? Do you think the number of Biden voters would decrease if Biden stopped the genocide?
I think the number of voters in general will decrease if Trump wins, considering he wants to get rid of elections entirely.
Do you disagree with the statement that Biden taking an anti-genocide stance, rather than his current pro-genocide with wrist slaps stance, would increase voter turnout?
Oh, good.
So the only reason to not vote for Biden is also a reason to not vote for trump. At least Biden seems to be at least signaling for cease fires.
The uncommitted were always derpy for ignoring the obvious. Now what will they do with their time?
Voting noncommitted in the Primary is the least derpy or ignorant thing you could possibly do in this situation. They weren’t voting Biden vs Trump, that’s not how primaries work, they were voting Biden vs literally any other Democrat and chose the latter.
Trump isn’t lying I think. I just don’t think the Middle East will sit idly by after his final solution.
Man, I was worried for a second he would take the opposite stance.
That’s your choices kids…the slow genocide of Palestine or shock and awe.
