Ever heard the saying “it’s not your fault, but it is your responsibility”?
When someone’s irrational/exaggerated fear becomes manifested as sexism, that manifestation absolutely deserves to get shut down, emphatically. If they don’t like that, it’s too damn bad, you are responsible for the statements you make, regardless of what traumas you’ve suffered.
I empathize with the trauma, not with the sexism. There is a difference, and no trauma excuses bigotry.
I stand by all I’ve said. No one would excuse a white person using the same logic to imply they’re justified in constantly fearing violence from black people, no matter how many black people may have done something bad to them in their past.
Half the problem with a lot of these discussions is that they devolve into the “I’ve been wronged” kyriarchy Olympics where people are not content to simply be wronged but they must be the most wronged and everyone else must be smacked for even implying that they are also wronged . She was doing it AND you are doing it too. She’s just reflecting your energy back at you Neither of you are going to get far until you can shelve your individually held needs long enough to recognize the other’s. Yes you were hurt, so were they but they are never going to offer YOU empathy if you can’t demonstrate you understand their fear is real to them.
Remember that women’s indoctrination for all the things they need to watch for to keep themselves safe starts early and there are very rare places in the world where they actually venture out after dark alone without fear. They are taught from childhood that there be monsters, that they are helpless, that they have to be suspicious and wary. You don’t treat fear that has been cultivated since childhood by the people training you to be an adult by dismissal. You don’t treat any fear by dismissal.
You want to talk about owning your shit? This isn’t a race to claim the most victimhood - that is toxic as shit. You want to change things for the better make people feel heard and ask what tools they need to feel safe. Make everyone feel safer and more supported rather than like they can’t trust you to care about anything but your own shit because yeah their fear is your problem. But if you can’t properly engage with it it is never going to go away.
The only reason I mentioned anything about what happened to me, was to make an example of the fact that if I had made a shitty sexist statement about women and tried to use that trauma to justify it, I would be, rightly, lambasted for it. I did not say a single thing to even begin to imply any sort of comparison of severity between us. Shame on you for that ridiculous accusation. The irony is that the entire second paragraph of your comment is, literally, actual ‘oppression olympics’ behavior–you mention all of that with no point other than ‘we have it bad so shut up’.
Trauma does not justify sexism. Period. And the sexism is what I called out. Just like a white guy getting mugged by a black guy doesn’t get to get away with implying he’s justified in fearing all black people. I wonder if you’d jump to such a guy’s defense, wagging your finger at anyone who calls out his racist statement, telling them they’re ‘dismissing his fear’. How ludicrous.
You are very tiring. Honestly it’s very difficult to empathize with someone who keeps trying so god damn hard to borrow other forms of oppression to validate their own.
I am sympathetic to men and women in regards to the issues that plague both but for fuck sake. If you don’t understand the mechanics of how to foster empathy you are just going to become bitter and angry. Yes, Talk about the things that make you feel oppressed but don’t try and do so as with the intention to shut someone else down as a counter to someone else venting their issues. Create your own moment where you talk about how this stuff in isolation of other people’s shit . That’s how you make your issues known while not seeming like a raging narcissistic ass.
Your problem is only tangentially sexism related. In reality it’s is not understanding basic social dynamics.
someone who keeps trying so god damn hard to borrow other forms of oppression to validate their own.
Literally just making things up at this point. You’ve created a very interesting alternate reality in your head about what’s gone on in this comment chain. Enjoy it, I’ll leave you to it. I’m sure that fleeting sensation of self-righteousness will fill the void for a little longer this time.
I will always call out and criticize a person of any immutable-characteristic-demographic saying their bad experience with a person or people of some other immutable-characteristic-demographic justifies fearing all of them. I will always do that because it is always the right thing to do.
That’s the beginning and the end of it, no matter how many nonsensical accusations you try to stick to me for doing so. “Men fear being rejected, women fear being killed” is a deeply sexist statement, period. You will not dissuade me from calling it out for what it is, especially not with your ‘spaghetti at the wall’ attempt to stick some sort of accusation or ulterior motive onto me.
Sure. Whatever floats your boat. Have fun talking with unyielding walls that offer you neither refuge nor comfort because you are too stubborn to look for doors.
Ever heard the saying “it’s not your fault, but it is your responsibility”?
When someone’s irrational/exaggerated fear becomes manifested as sexism, that manifestation absolutely deserves to get shut down, emphatically. If they don’t like that, it’s too damn bad, you are responsible for the statements you make, regardless of what traumas you’ve suffered.
I empathize with the trauma, not with the sexism. There is a difference, and no trauma excuses bigotry.
I stand by all I’ve said. No one would excuse a white person using the same logic to imply they’re justified in constantly fearing violence from black people, no matter how many black people may have done something bad to them in their past.
This is no different.
Half the problem with a lot of these discussions is that they devolve into the “I’ve been wronged” kyriarchy Olympics where people are not content to simply be wronged but they must be the most wronged and everyone else must be smacked for even implying that they are also wronged . She was doing it AND you are doing it too. She’s just reflecting your energy back at you Neither of you are going to get far until you can shelve your individually held needs long enough to recognize the other’s. Yes you were hurt, so were they but they are never going to offer YOU empathy if you can’t demonstrate you understand their fear is real to them.
Remember that women’s indoctrination for all the things they need to watch for to keep themselves safe starts early and there are very rare places in the world where they actually venture out after dark alone without fear. They are taught from childhood that there be monsters, that they are helpless, that they have to be suspicious and wary. You don’t treat fear that has been cultivated since childhood by the people training you to be an adult by dismissal. You don’t treat any fear by dismissal.
You want to talk about owning your shit? This isn’t a race to claim the most victimhood - that is toxic as shit. You want to change things for the better make people feel heard and ask what tools they need to feel safe. Make everyone feel safer and more supported rather than like they can’t trust you to care about anything but your own shit because yeah their fear is your problem. But if you can’t properly engage with it it is never going to go away.
The only reason I mentioned anything about what happened to me, was to make an example of the fact that if I had made a shitty sexist statement about women and tried to use that trauma to justify it, I would be, rightly, lambasted for it. I did not say a single thing to even begin to imply any sort of comparison of severity between us. Shame on you for that ridiculous accusation. The irony is that the entire second paragraph of your comment is, literally, actual ‘oppression olympics’ behavior–you mention all of that with no point other than ‘we have it bad so shut up’.
Trauma does not justify sexism. Period. And the sexism is what I called out. Just like a white guy getting mugged by a black guy doesn’t get to get away with implying he’s justified in fearing all black people. I wonder if you’d jump to such a guy’s defense, wagging your finger at anyone who calls out his racist statement, telling them they’re ‘dismissing his fear’. How ludicrous.
You are very tiring. Honestly it’s very difficult to empathize with someone who keeps trying so god damn hard to borrow other forms of oppression to validate their own.
I am sympathetic to men and women in regards to the issues that plague both but for fuck sake. If you don’t understand the mechanics of how to foster empathy you are just going to become bitter and angry. Yes, Talk about the things that make you feel oppressed but don’t try and do so as with the intention to shut someone else down as a counter to someone else venting their issues. Create your own moment where you talk about how this stuff in isolation of other people’s shit . That’s how you make your issues known while not seeming like a raging narcissistic ass.
Your problem is only tangentially sexism related. In reality it’s is not understanding basic social dynamics.
Literally just making things up at this point. You’ve created a very interesting alternate reality in your head about what’s gone on in this comment chain. Enjoy it, I’ll leave you to it. I’m sure that fleeting sensation of self-righteousness will fill the void for a little longer this time.
I will always call out and criticize a person of any immutable-characteristic-demographic saying their bad experience with a person or people of some other immutable-characteristic-demographic justifies fearing all of them. I will always do that because it is always the right thing to do.
That’s the beginning and the end of it, no matter how many nonsensical accusations you try to stick to me for doing so. “Men fear being rejected, women fear being killed” is a deeply sexist statement, period. You will not dissuade me from calling it out for what it is, especially not with your ‘spaghetti at the wall’ attempt to stick some sort of accusation or ulterior motive onto me.
I see right through you.
Sure. Whatever floats your boat. Have fun talking with unyielding walls that offer you neither refuge nor comfort because you are too stubborn to look for doors.